Survivng the Survivor with Joel and Karmela Waldman

Disclaimer: Unedited AI Transcript

Larry (00:07):

You are listening to specifically for Seniors, a podcast designed for a vibrant and diverse senior community. I'm your host, Dr. Larry Barsh. Join me in a lineup of experts as we discuss a wide variety of topics that will empower, inform, entertain, and inspire as we celebrate the richness and wisdom of this incredible stage of life.

Larry (00:38):

Jewish mothers are all the same everywhere, but very few Jewish mothers co-host a True Crime podcast with their son. Our guests today are Carmela Waldman, an 80 something year old psychotherapist and holocaust survivor, and her son Joel Walman, who was an award-winning journalist that chose to leave his network news job. The two created a true crime podcast called Surviving the Survivor, and a book with the same name. I know I could have used the word eponymous, but the way things are going today, I was just totally worried about pronouncing it, being a son who also had a Jewish mother. I have no idea where this conversation is going to end up. Carmela Joel, thanks for coming on specifically for seniors.

New Speaker (01:39):

Uh thanks guys. Thank, thank you so much for having us. Larry, all I can say is our effort, the three of us, to try to actually get onto this software, to actually broadcast this podcast. That should have been the podcast because it probably would've gotten more views than any Joe Rogan podcast <laugh>, if you guys had to see what I went through there. But I'll tell you, Larry you give me a little hope because it makes me feel, and I don't mean to beat up on a man that's down, but Carmela was almost Mark Zuckerberg like compared to what I was dealing with with you. But we're all on here and I'm thrilled to be here. And I can tell you one thing I guess all Jewish mothers are very similar, but my Jewish mother is a little different.

Larry (02:33):

<Laugh> <laugh>. I think we'll get into that a little later. Let's start by talking about your podcast. I mentioned that you and Carmela are are a Holocaust survivor and therapist, and you were a journalist. When and why did you two come up with the idea to host a podcast?

Joel Waldman (03:00):

Well, thank you for the the question again on on a sincere note. Thank you for having us here. And I think this is an amazing idea to kind of host a podcast that's geared towards people of a slightly older generation. I think it's an amazing idea. And Larry, you're an inspiration. I just hope that I'm not still doing my podcast at 87. 'cause If I am, I will be completely worn to the bone. Well, but anyway,

Larry (03:27):

Actually, I'm 88, so I'm hanging. Oh, I'm, I'm hanging in <laugh>.

Joel Waldman (03:32):

You look, you look great. So I'm gonna give you a ten second background on me. I, I had no idea what I wanted to do in life. I went to Brandeis University. I detect a, a Massachusetts accent there, Larry. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Is that, am I right? Yeah.

Larry (03:48):

It comes out when I get back to Massachusetts

Joel Waldman (03:51):

<Laugh>. So went to school in Waltham had no idea what to do. Every single kid at Waltham was Brandeis was either gonna law school or medical school. So my dad, who is was a retired psychiatrist. He passed, sadly a couple years ago. But long story short, he had the brilliant idea of sending me to graduate school for education. 'cause He had a friend, Bernie Bergoff, who was very successful in the daycare business. And I was good with kids. And for some reason he thought that'd be a good idea. I taught for a year and a half, and it was a great experience, but I don't think I've ever hated anything more. So, long story short, I ended up at A NBC at a page program, and that led me into reporting. And then my final job after doing the local market tour and, and being an investigative reporter at Fox Five in New York City I ended up at Fox News Channel, and then the whole Me Too movement struck.

Joel Waldman (04:47):

And you might have heard of Bill o Riley and Roger Ailes and all the, and it was just a, a unmitigated disaster inside of Fox News. And I had three kids decided to leave, and then the pandemic hit, and I said, I gotta start a podcast 'cause this is the future. And had good contacts within the media world. I could have probably tried to get some big names. And I said, I know exactly who is the right person. Stunningly beautiful, incredibly smart, charismatic, highly opinionated. And I asked Carm and the rest, as they say, is history. However, we, we did start with just sort of bizarre topics talking to Carol Baskin of Tiger King fame back then, Dr. Avi Lobin astrophysicist. And then we stumbled upon a story that brought us to true crime. And I've now sort of become the defacto Larry King of True Crime. I do a live show every night on YouTube with a panel. We call 'em the Best Guests in True Crime, which they really are. Shout out to Steve Cohen for helping us there. And Carm is now sort of, of the matriarch of the show and joins in. She doesn't know this yet, but we're doing a show upcoming on the Alexander Brothers who are in trouble. And she will be joining us on that. So that is the genesis.

Karmela Waldman (06:11):

I am semi-retired. I am 85, and I, I am very honored to Larry,

Joel Waldman (06:18):

By the way, I don't think you're gonna be able to ask a single question. Go ahead, Carm

Larry (06:22):

<Laugh>.

Karmela Waldman (06:23):

No, I will. I will control myself. Ask me one single question. Please

Larry (06:29):

Don't control yourself. Okay,

Karmela Waldman (06:33):

OK

Larry (06:33):

Question. What's the story behind the title of the podcast, surviving the Survivor?

Karmela Waldman (06:41):

Well, first of all, let me just give you the, the situation. We are all Joel and his family live about 10 minutes car ride from me in Miami Beach. And I am living in a condominium. My husband died about a year and a half ago after 63 years of a, a happy marriage. And that's not only my description, it is outside observance impression also anyway, after all this time, while he was already ailing, Joel approached me if I, during Covid, if I would like to be part of a podcast. And I, I didn't hesitate, like one second. I didn't even breathe in or out. I immediately said yes. And my husband encouraged us to do it because he knows the two of us. He's a psychiatrist, and he know, knew he was a psychiatrist and he knew us. Anyway. Then one more very important information about podcasts in general. We, we kind of try to learn about podcasts. This was in 2021, correct? Or

Joel Waldman (07:59):

Larry, by the way, you can ask a question, but you're still not gonna get an answer. Oh, go ahead.

Karmela Waldman (08:03):

But one second, one second, one second. The important thing about podcasts in general is that the ones that succeed such as Jaws, and in the beginning, mine also, but the one that is now mostly in Jaws hands, you have to find a niche, a niche. Only podcasts that cater to a niche will be surviving because there are million, a million podcasts. Yeah.

Joel Waldman (08:36):

Larry Carm is now doing podcast consulting for 1250 an hour. She will help you with your show. Carm, you never answered the questions. Why is the title surviving the Survivor after all that?

Karmela Waldman (08:47):

Okay, because because to survive my personality, you have to be a survivor. So

Joel Waldman (08:53):

Larry, she, she always kind of ingests. She would say you know, I'm just trying to survive in a rough, my mom has all these weird expressions. But one of them was, I'm just trying to survive in a rough world. For whatever reason, whenever we would get somewhere, Larry, you may remember this, this is way before my time. She would say, thank you for flying Ozark Airlines. Like, if we were on a long car trip, weird things. She would, she likes to say Over my dead body all these different, like catch phrases. But Carm is she doesn't hold back. She is brutally honest, and that's why it's in the title of my book, surviving the Survivor. And that is, it's kind of obviously a play on Word. She's a Holocaust survivor, and I'm trying to survive the actual survivor. One thing real quick, and we can talk about this a little more, that I found out during the course of the book is I'm not exactly normal, and I didn't realize the extent of kind of generational trauma, which Carm tries to scoff off. My dad would've laughed at. 'cause My dad is, was a very unique psychiatrist. But you know, there, there, he,

Karmela Waldman (10:06):

He believed that you know, Joel is trying to hook him. I operate like, hook into this you know the survival tr children's trauma. You know, he tries to use that as an alibi for being a little talk out. Yeah.

Joel Waldman (10:22):

This is why it's called <inaudible> Survivor. No, I have anxiety. I worry, I have irrational everything. But Larry, go ahead.

Larry (10:29):

Yeah. You know, my next question was, you both host the podcast. What, what is it like working with your mother? But I don't have to add, answer or ask that question anymore. It doesn't seem common peaceful at all. <Laugh>

Joel Waldman (10:49):

<Laugh>. If you had like a, they do have this now, by the way, a portable EKG machine. If you, if I had that connected to my chest 24 7 and my mother spoke to me, you would see my heart rate rise every single time. Carm is not like, I have friends who have like these very soothing parents who, you know, speak to them calmly. Carm is unbelievably excitable. Definitely why I have some anxiety and definitely I blame her fully for some OCD, but we get along great in terms of a working relationship. We don't have a normal relationship 'cause we probably talk 70 times a day and I'm 55, so it's definitely dysfunctional. I also have no idea how I'm gonna continue on once she's no longer here, which I tell her frequently. But it's a good working relationship. And Larry, I'm interested in you. You, you were born and raised in Boston. You, I know you were a dentist, right? But you seem like an interesting guy. You were doing some cool stuff, photo photography and stuff.

Larry (11:56):

Yeah. this podcast came up during during the pandemic my wife who just recently passed away. That's why we had a chance last month. 

Joel Waldman (12:12):

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah,

Larry (12:14):

Thanks. Was in memory care and we were kind of restricted to who we could get together with. So I couldn't find people to talk to in person. I decided to start the podcast and that's how it came about.

Karmela Waldman (12:35):

Wow. Where are you, where are you physically?

Larry (12:38):

In a chair right in front of my camera.

Joel Waldman (12:41):

<Laugh>,

Karmela Waldman (12:42):

But where, where, where?

Larry (12:45):

About 30 miles outside of Boston.

Joel Waldman (12:49):

Okay. By the way, I don't wanna get in the middle of anything, but maybe it's probably a little premature. I can set up a little love connection here. But first I would have to look through Larry's very,

Karmela Waldman (12:59):

Very,

Joel Waldman (13:00):

Very, very first. I would have to look through Larry's tax returns and find Larry. Do you have children?

Larry (13:04):

Yeah, two kids. One's in Los Angeles. One's in New Jersey.

Joel Waldman (13:10):

Oh, I'm from Jersey. What part of Jersey?

Larry (13:12):

Summit.

Joel Waldman (13:13):

Oh, nice. And what's the one in LA do?

Larry (13:18):

That's my daughter. She, right now Why are we talking about me?

Joel Waldman (13:24):

'Cause I'm curious. Oh, and we'll get back because

Karmela Waldman (13:26):

He's very, because he's very inappropriate. He, for, he always thinks he's the interviewer. He has a professional deviation. Joel, you are being interviewed and not the interviewer.

Joel Waldman (13:40):

Larry, very quickly, what does she do in LA then? I'll let you ask all

Larry (13:42):

The question. Right now she's working out of her house, but she's always been interested in media.

Joel Waldman (13:49):

Oh,

Larry (13:49):

Nice. So,

Joel Waldman (13:50):

And

Larry (13:50):

She

Joel Waldman (13:50):

Stayed from all the fires.

Larry (13:51):

She managed WBZ Radio in Boston for a while. My son used to be a TV director. Now he's a suit. So,

Joel Waldman (14:03):

Very, very

Larry (14:04):

Interesting. Let's get back to your book. You say it's a brutally honest conversation about life and death with your mom, a Holocaust survivor, therapist, and the podcast co-host. Why a book?

Joel Waldman (14:26):

A great question. You know, I've been meaning to do something I growing up. So one thing, you know, my mother is despite going with, she went through and despite she had a child that passed away from an illness at a young age. And then recently my father passed away after 63 years. And by the way, the, my father, I was, I think the toughest thing on her by far. But she is very positive. Incredibly optimistic. Always never really looks into the rear view mirror. And so growing up, you know, I kind of, you know, obviously knew my mother was a Holocaust survivor, number one, it's like, you know, when your dad is is, you know a celebrity or something, you don't care. Like Adam Sander, I heard him say his par his kids couldn't care less.

Joel Waldman (15:21):

Well, my mom was a Holocaust survivor, and I just thought it was normal. You know, I, I, it wasn't a big deal to me. We never really talked about it much. There was a photo of the nun. There was a nun that saved my mom named Matilda Go. And that sat in our house. And that's not really normal for a Jewish kid in suburban New Jersey to have. But nevertheless, there was a photo of a nun. And then, you know, I, it was always like these kaleidoscopic images and fragments of stories. Long story short, I just didn't really know the story. And then 1999 I, I was in media and I was bouncing around a few jobs, and I ended up working for the Michael Moore, the heavyset guy with a hat. And he encouraged me to make a documentary, which I didn't know how to do, never did.

Joel Waldman (16:09):

But I did fly to Switzerland. That's where my grandmother was living. My mom's mom where she relocated after the war. And I interviewed everybody. I interviewed her. I interviewed my aunt, I interviewed my mom, I interviewed my mom's. I went to Israel and interviewed my mom's best friends. But I was so busy with my career, I just never did anything with it. Those interviews live on YouTube now. But then fast forward to after my Fox News career. And we start this podcast and I'm spending all this time with her. We were doing, this is a a odd thing I'm about to tell you, but we were doing an interview with Carol Baskin at the height of Tiger King fame. And she said at one point in the interview your mother is my, by the way, Carm was calling it Lion King the entire time, which she thought was, but not purpose.

Joel Waldman (17:02):

You know, she was doing it sincerely. She was calling it Lion King. But anyway, Carol Baskin says to to me, your mother's like my beloved tiger. She's an endangered species. And that, for some reason, that really hit home. I don't know why. And the podcast was getting successful. And then I, I was having a lot of very, I, I still do have a lot of high powered kind of criminal defense attorneys. And FBI profilers and a bunch of them had books. And somehow I got connected to the publisher who knew me from my Fox five days. And that was it. And then I just sat and wrote, and wrote, and wrote, the book is like 20% the Holocaust story and 80% life advice. If you ever read Tuesdays with Maury by Mitch Alba, he wrote a blurb for the book. And it's a lot along those lines, it's life advice from my mom. But it is I I say this half kiddingly, it's a laugh out loud Holocaust story. It's not a typical Holocaust story.

Larry (18:06):

Funny you mentioned ma Schwartz who was a, I guess I can say it now, was, was a patient. And my story is if he, he used to come in on Wednesdays. If he came in a day earlier, I could have been a famous writer,

Joel Waldman (18:25):

<Laugh>. So that's

Karmela Waldman (18:27):

Exactly, that's a

Joel Waldman (18:28):

Good line. That's interesting. That's really interesting. He must have been a sweet guy.

Larry (18:31):

Oh, he was one of the nicest people I've ever met. Carm. You, I'm, I'm easy saying Carm because that's what we call our granddaughter as well. That's

Karmela Waldman (18:45):

Fine.

Larry (18:47):

You encouraged Joel to write the book in a way. Only a Jewish mother could encourage someone to write a book. There's an email that starts the book, and I'm sort tempted to read it to everyone here.

Joel Waldman (19:08):

Please do. It's a, it's a voicemail, but please do.

Larry (19:11):

It's a, oh, it's not an email. It's a voice.

Joel Waldman (19:12):

It's

Karmela Waldman (19:12):

A voice. I did not, I did not know. Full disclosure, I'm also paranoid. So I always have to say something related to my, I did not know that he was taping my phone messages. I would call if he wasn't there, I would leave him a little message. I never suspected he was writing them down.

Larry (19:33):

So in, in an adult way, I will read your voicemail to Joel <laugh>. Joel, this is your mother. Just write the book. You need to just write words and not worry about it being a man masterpiece. Are you really vain enough to think you're going to write a bestseller your first time? <Laugh>, you are not doky. Just write and stop thinking so much. It's just to have a companion to our podcast. Okay. Call your sweet mother when you get a chance. And don't forget, your taxes are due in two weeks. <Laugh>. That's my mother

Karmela Waldman (20:17):

<Laugh>. Even I like it when you read it.

Larry (20:25):

That has to,

Karmela Waldman (20:26):

You know, I, I refuse to get embarrassed. He, he deserves what I wrote because I think people get the writer's block because they want to write the perfect book. I kind of protect myself by saying I, I can jabber away, but I, I cannot write. I truly cannot write in any language. Well, I noticed that as a, as a, a teenager, Larry.

Joel Waldman (20:52):

I'll tell you interesting story. I,

Karmela Waldman (20:54):

Joel, it just happens that Joel writes very, very well.

Joel Waldman (20:59):

I I like, you know, I went to this like journalist. Yeah. I went to this like in Miami, there's like a hipster food court wherever, it's very busy, crowded. I'm not a big music, I'm a big like news guy. But I would put on country music. I have no idea. Like Johnny Cash. And I would just go and write for like, three hours at a time. I never rewrote a single word of this book, and I never went back and read it. So one of these days I'll go back and,

Karmela Waldman (21:25):

And the editors didn't change anything either. Maybe that's what, what got me in trouble with the cursing. Yeah. Because the editors didn't change anything either. But, but I do curse only with Joel. I don't, did you see in the back of the book there is a, there is a statement. Did you notice that? I

Larry (21:47):

Dunno. Yeah. But I read it a while ago, so I don't remember. Yeah.

Karmela Waldman (21:51):

Anyway,

Joel Waldman (21:52):

Don't give it away. Don't give it away. It's a tease. It's a tease. Carm does something at the end of the book, but yeah, my, I have three children who are 10, eight, and five. And they know every curse word in multiple languages thanks to their grandmother

Larry (22:10):

<Laugh>.

Karmela Waldman (22:12):

Yeah, I know how, what to educate them, the essentials. But

Joel Waldman (22:16):

Larry, you said your granddaughter, you call her Karm. What's her name?

Larry (22:20):

Carmel.

Joel Waldman (22:22):

Oh wow.

Karmela Waldman (22:23):

You are kidding. I never met anybody before. Whose name was,

Larry (22:27):

It begins it begin with a C, not a K. Yeah.

Karmela Waldman (22:30):

Yeah. That, that's fine. That's the American, right? Cia spelling the American spelling, not the euro, not the in, in Yugoslavia, where I was born, everything was phonetic fanatic. So if it sounded like they, they wrote it to Ka

Joel Waldman (22:47):

Let Larry get to Elise, his third question.

Karmela Waldman (22:49):

Alright, breathe in, breathe out, let's

Larry (22:51):

Hear it. And in her standup comedy routine, which he's attempting right now she tells everybody she's five foot 13 inches

Joel Waldman (23:05):

<Laugh>. So,

Karmela Waldman (23:07):

Oh, you, oh, that so cute. Is she really?

Larry (23:10):

Yeah, she's six one. She's, she's the shortest of the grandchildren. 

Karmela Waldman (23:18):

That's very interesting. She could be a model.

Larry (23:21):

Yeah. yes. A couple of episodes, I showed a film by John, I don't know if you've ever seen it entitled Beyond Bobby r about John's family that were murdered in Ukraine outside of the concentration camps.

Karmela Waldman (23:40):

Yeah. Yeah. I am familiar with ba ai. Do

Larry (23:43):

You, do you want to share some of your Holocaust stories?

Karmela Waldman (23:49):

I, I have to tell you first I have the need to tell you first. Last night, my daughter is here. My daughter has five daughters, and we are all together. That's the reason I'll have to get off the, the phone, because otherwise we are not going to have a meal for Shabbat. So I have to go and buy it before that, because Yes, yes. But, but I have to tell you where we were yesterday, because it's interesting for your audience. We are in Miami and the Nova which on October 7th, if you of 2023 there was a, there was a Nova concert music festival, and very close to the place where the Hamas broke through and slaughtered about 300 young, beautiful, young people. And somebody created an exhibit of that horror story yesterday. I, yesterday I went to see it with three of my granddaughters and my daughter.

Karmela Waldman (25:04):

And I don't have a story that is as horrendously horrific as this. Even, this has nothing to do with, with the Holocaust. I was almost 5-year-old when it happened to me. The rollercoaster happened to me. I was born in 1939 in August, world War ii, as you know started in September. And because we were in a part of Europe that the Holocaust spread to that part of Europe, which, which eventually became Hungary. The, the, the, they didn't take us to Auschwitz until the other parts of Europe were already liberated. So, so it was virtually towards the very end. But my memory, my mother at the age of 84, she by the way, died at 98. And, and at 84, she took a record player and, and registered all her experiences. And one of the most horrific memories that I don't have, but my mother, who was also a survivor head, and which is written down.

Karmela Waldman (26:45):

And I, to me, in my own imagination, it's probably the most horrendous scenes that one can witness in Budapest, where she was hiding with false documents at that moment. She was 34, she was going on the street and saw a tramway coming towards her. At the same time he saw s soldiers leading a group of men, women, and children to the Danube. The Danube was almost frozen. But what they did, they took Jews randomly, and they brought them to the this is background. This is not what my mother saw, but this is today. There is even a monument there of peop of people's shoes made out of bronze to remind people what happened in Budapest at that time. Anyway, what my mother witnessed was this group of men and women being led towards the Danube to be shot and killed. And one man, young man jumped up on a moving t Tramway to avoid going with them. And my mother witnessed that. Two minutes later, the people in the t tramway pushed him back down again.

Speaker 5 (28:25):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative>.

Karmela Waldman (28:28):

To me, that scene is like heart trenching to nth degree. I did not, I heard screams of rape. I heard shots as a 5-year-old when, and this was ironically when we were liberated from the Nazis by the allies who happened to be Russian, who happened to be, actually, I researched it. Ukrainian soldiers who were fighting as part of the Soviet Union, they came into the basement where we were all hiding. And they were raping women, shooting men. They were, they were already completely deprived of all humanity because they were fighting already for five years, never seeing family and never being in their own environment. So, so that I, I, I was aware, but I wasn't a hundred percent aware of what was going on at the time. As a 5-year-old, I was very, a very precautious 5-year-old.

Larry (29:45):

Thank you.

Karmela Waldman (29:48):

You're welcome,

Larry (29:50):

Joe. The book discusses a family's lives and death, as you say, in a brutally honest way, and yet it never is depressing. How did, how did you manage to work humor into that book?

Joel Waldman (30:08):

I have no idea. Honestly. I have no idea. I think my mom has always said that black humor is what keeps her, you know, people going. My dad had a really funny, kind of dry sense of humor. By the way, my mom really didn't answer your question again. So, just very briefly. She was about four and a half. She was living in the former Yugoslavia. Her father was a successful optometrist. Didn't think the Nazis were coming. My grandmother thought the Nazis were coming. Eventually the Nazis came. My grandmother grabs my mom. They run through a little hole. She had fake papers. She knew a gentile doctor and Dr. Scherer Evo Sheer. And he took my mother to a Catholic school for boys. And that's where she met the nun. And the nun took her in. My mother was converted to Catholicism in there.

Joel Waldman (31:10):

And then eventually was reunited with my grandmother. And they were before this seizure, Budapest, they were holed up. And my mother, who in the Catholic school learned all her Hail Marys and all that. They, they were still kind of undercover, pretending not to be Jewish. My mother would say her Hail Marys and all that out loud. They would have to run outside to grab some part of a horse that was bombed to eat, to survive. And then eventually the Russians came and liberated them. And they had a two week walk in the freezing cold back to Serbia. So a little different. And we went back to Serbia for that's how the book ends. We went there and with my children last year. And my grandfather very surreal for me. 'cause I really should be the, the, the, the great-grandchild.

Joel Waldman (32:02):

But I'm the grandchild. And my, I have a five year-old son who's grandmothers, a Holocaust survivor. I bet you there's not another five yearold in the country who can say that. I just happened to get married late. So the point I'm making is we, we went back to Serbia and we go, you know, the however many thousands of miles. And then after like 20 minutes in this cemetery, no one could find my grandfather's name. The la my mom's maiden name is Chris Haber, K-R-I-S-H-A-B-E-R. And it's weird, in this cemetery which is in the middle of nowhere in Serbia there was a lot of Chris Haber headstones. I guess it was a common Serbian name for Jewish people. Long story short my mom was like, okay, let's leave. We just, you know, flew out there to see this. Eventually my wife found it. It's my great-grandfather's burial place. But since there's zero remains of my grandfather, he was incinerated. They just wrote his name not to cheer up the

Karmela Waldman (33:06):

Audience. He was, he was gassed in Auschwitz. My father and grandfather were gassed in Auschwitz.

Joel Waldman (33:11):

So the only thing on the tombstone is his name. But back to your, so I just wanted to let the, that's really kind of the story in a nutshell. But back to your question I, I really have no idea. I think we use humor to just deflect. And I, I was just capturing real conversation. You know, I, I wrote around the conversation to kind of build the meat of the book, but it's, it's really pretty accurate.

Larry (33:41):

I know what it's like to have had a mother who knew when and where all my buttons were and knew exactly how to push 'em. So let's talk about Jewish guilt. <Laugh>, <laugh>,

Karmela Waldman (34:00):

May, may, I, you

Joel Waldman (34:00):

Have another nine hours. <Laugh> ask

Karmela Waldman (34:02):

You something before, before, before you get into that. You had the mother who knew where to push all the buttons. But there, there is also the, it's a two-way street. Joel knows exactly where to push my buttons, and he, he loves to push my buttons. He loves to watch me losing it completely loves it, loves it. There is nothing he likes more than to make me crazy a little. But li listen guys, I have to go. I'm not joking.

Joel Waldman (34:37):

Larry. I'll stay with you.

Larry (34:38):

Yeah. I may have to get back to your phone to download some of the content as a separate track, but we can talk about that later. Yeah.

Karmela Waldman (34:51):

Shoot. Shoot, shoot. The last question for this for me,

Larry (34:56):

A last

Karmela Waldman (34:58):

Ask. Yeah.

Joel Waldman (34:59):

Real quick Carm, if you, if you stay on at the end, Larry doesn't have to do any work. Just, you can leave, but leave your streamy yard running till it uploads.

Larry (35:09):

Thank you. <Laugh>.

Joel Waldman (35:11):

Yeah, both. Oh, both of them just stared at me blankly. Go ahead, <laugh>.

Larry (35:15):

No, I didn't stare at you blankly. I know. <Laugh>. So you feel guilty about your clothes and sunglasses, Joel?

Joel Waldman (35:28):

Oh yeah. I've got a little guilt there. So this is interesting. I'm a damaged human, I think, because again number one, the, the one thing my mother hates the most is being a victim of anything. She never called herself a victim. And in the true crime world, they really are referred to as survivors. But my mother, it did go to the Holocaust. My father was a psychiatrist. Hello. And they say, Karm, you can't take a call mid podcast.

Karmela Waldman (35:55):

Hello. I am taking the call. I then,

Joel Waldman (36:01):

Larry, this happens on my podcast. I need,

Karmela Waldman (36:03):

I need 10 minutes.

Joel Waldman (36:05):

I bet you it's never happened to you before.

Larry (36:07):

Bye. You know, when I started this podcast, I was so anxious about keeping everything really nice and professional. I don't care anymore. <Laugh>, <laugh>,

Joel Waldman (36:20):

It's, trust me, it's better if it's not. They

Karmela Waldman (36:22):

Want. That's how life is. This is how life is. This is really

Joel Waldman (36:26):

Life. You know, Larry, you just had, that was a microcosm. That one phone call was my life basically summed up. But,

Karmela Waldman (36:31):

But may I, may I say something? Yeah. I am not completely, I refuse to take the guild a hundred percent. 90%. Okay. But 10% is yours, guys, because you weren't there ready at nine, at 10 when we were supposed to. And I told my daughter, and the store will close, and I'm gonna make my whole family of five daughters and their husbands and their children starve. I can't deal with that. So I have to go. And I would be most happy to talk to you another time if you want to interview me about anything, about guilt, about whatever

Joel Waldman (37:11):

Carm when you hit leave studio, let it, don't get completely outta Streamy yard. Just hit,

Karmela Waldman (37:17):

I am not gonna hit leave studio. I leave it exactly as is right now.

Joel Waldman (37:22):

Yeah, Larry, if you want to bounce her out, I guess, and it and then I can answer that question if you, if you want to keep going, Larry.

Larry (37:29):

Okay. yeah. I can take her.

Karmela Waldman (37:31):

Larry, Larry, I do apologize to you sincerely. This is the first time I behaved this obnoxiously about keep, about breaking this session. But I have to go No bless ob obliged and I have to go.

Larry (37:46):

It's not what I heard, but that's all right. Thanks for being on Car <laugh>.

Joel Waldman (37:53):

Okay,

Larry (37:54):

I'll catch you again sometime.

Karmela Waldman (37:56):

Okay. Good luck to you. And may you continue and the two of you now he can say all the dirt about me because I won't be there to defend myself.

Larry (38:09):

Bye-Bye. Thanks for being on.

Karmela Waldman (38:10):

Bye. I am not going to touch at all. I leave it as is.

Larry (38:15):

Thank you.

Karmela Waldman (38:17):

But I, I tell you

Joel Waldman (38:18):

One a Jewish, but she can never say goodbye. I knew this was gonna happen.

Karmela Waldman (38:20):

I tell you one thing, the way you set up this question, it was a very 20th century way of doing it. And I tell you why, because you set it up as these castrating mothers <laugh> who lay guilt for their children. That was the Freudian era. That's not in style anymore.

Larry (38:41):

Yeah, but I went through it too.

Joel Waldman (38:44):

<Laugh>.

Karmela Waldman (38:45):

Yeah. But my son is not a victim. If he is anything, he's a of victimizer.

Joel Waldman (38:50):

I'm a victim of your, alright, Carm, if you're gonna leave, say goodbye.

Karmela Waldman (38:55):

I love you guys. You have a wonderful session.

Joel Waldman (38:58):

You have to hit leave studio. You can't now. She'll walk around with us, with herself. Larry, you're

Karmela Waldman (39:03):

Gonna need, I'm gonna, I am gonna walk around with you,

Joel Waldman (39:06):

Larry, you're gonna need to pop out this

Karmela Waldman (39:07):

Studio. Will we take before it download? This

Joel Waldman (39:09):

Might be the greatest podcast ever recorded. I wish the whole world could hear this, but yeah.

Larry (39:14):

Okay.

Joel Waldman (39:15):

Yeah. Look, she we're going upside down now, but Larry, I think you're gonna have to remove, oh, there you go. Perfect. <laugh>. Alright.

Larry (39:22):

Oh, that was, I apologize. That was more fun than I've had in a long time. <Laugh>,

Joel Waldman (39:27):

I apologize for everything. But no, to an, I mean, to answer your question, so I, I was just getting to the point. My mom's a Holocaust survivor and my dad is actually born in Brooklyn. Raised in the Bronx. So he was a product of the Depression. And he was probably, I live in Miami Beach, probably the flashiest place on Earth. Lamborghinis plastic surgery. Fake this, fake that. You know, my dad drove the same car for 15 years. Never, I don't think he ever even bought himself a suit, you know, he was just like, where, you know, he had this private practice. But anyway, the point I'm making is you know, those are two major events. Like the great, he was kind of scarred from the Great Depression 'cause his dad couldn't afford anything. He became a doctor. And then my mom goes to the Holocaust. So these combination of things, I've got this like irrational worry about running outta money, and then I've got my mother's thing. So it's you know, so she, she guilts me. You know, if I'm, I'm s spending a little more than I should have, but I'm good at kind of hiding it from her. Usually.

Larry (40:39):

I was gonna ask your mother if she wanted to be a co-host on my podcast.

Joel Waldman (40:45):

I haven't. She would love it.

Larry (40:46):

I haven't had that much fun in a long time.

Joel Waldman (40:50):

<Laugh>, she would love it. You should

Larry (40:53):

<Laugh>. One of the problems with podcasts that are directed at older adults, specifically, like, specifically for seniors, is an unfamiliarity with podcasts in general. So let's be specific about them being able to find your podcast.

Joel Waldman (41:22):

Well, I appreciate that question and kudos to you. I think it's great. And this is really, I dunno if you saw recently Elon Musk tweeted out that you know, traditional media, and I agree with him, is dead and or dying. I'll give you an example without mentioning a name. I have a good friend who's a meteorologist chief meteorologist, and he just lost his job literally a day ago because what they're doing now is instead of having weather people, which is the most important thing for local news they're, they've lost so much revenue that they're firing all the weather people in all these local markets and finding like a central hub. And then they hire two weather people who do the weather for, you know, Oakland, then Sacramento Tucson wherever in Alabama. And it's, and they're sitting in a studio 1500 miles away.

Joel Waldman (42:18):

So the business is, the traditional business is going downhill. Elon Musk basically said, the future is independent journalism and people are gonna be able to decide. It's kind of democratizing it. So kudos to you. 'cause I think that obviously it's sad, you know and I know you're in the same boat as my mom. You know, I, I was super close to my dad too, and my mother was very, very, I mean, they had a really good marriage. And you know, it's tough. Like she's home alone. My, my sister happens to be visiting now. She keeps herself really busy, but it's tough, like your companion of all these years. And I feel like seniors are a little bit of a forgotten segment of the society. So you know, I, I, I credit you and applaud you for creating something for them. I think it's very important, and I think this is for everybody, but definitely something seniors would be interested in.

Larry (43:17):

So how do they find your podcast?

Joel Waldman (43:20):

Oh, see, I was like my mom. I just caught the didn't answer the question. Disease. so our podcast, which is Surviving the Survivor is found anywhere you listen to podcasts. So Spotify, apple, audible, you can listen to the podcast. And then the primary platform is actually YouTube. It's, it's a, like a show. It's literally like a Larry King style show. I have a panel every night. We're talking about the biggest criminal cases and trials in the country with the best known I've had Nancy Grace on this show. I've had Politan, who is the lead anchor for court tv. Mark Gargo, who represented Michael Jack, all these attorneys and people. And we do kind of a round table, but it's on YouTube every evening. Monday to Friday either five or seven. Friday show is always at 1230. And it's, it's, you know, it's, it's, I I kind of try to do the same thing in the podcast, which is, even though we're talking about really heavy subjects try to keep it light with some humor, I think people appreciate that.

Joel Waldman (44:28):

And then personally, the book, by the way, people always say, for me personally, it drives me crazy. It's redundant, but personally the book is incredibly important for me. 'cause It is my mother's story and it's her life advice. And I would literally be literally nothing without her, but figuratively too. So I, I'm just, I, I tell everyone, it's the most important story I've ever reported on same title as a podcast. I kept it easy surviving the survivor. And that book is available literally anywhere books are sold. The easiest place is probably Amazon or Barnes and Noble Online. You can order it. And I think you know, I tell everyone it'll, it'll change kind of how you see life.

Larry (45:15):

So how do I get my podcast? The 10 or 20,000 views? <Laugh>

Joel Waldman (45:21):

<Laugh>, are you, well, a couple of tips. Are you on, are you on YouTube? Yep. Oh,

Larry (45:27):

Okay. That's why I'm upset that this is outta sync.

Joel Waldman (45:32):

Yeah, <laugh>. Okay. It

Larry (45:32):

Would be much easier for our audio.

Joel Waldman (45:35):

Are you, are you on social media

Larry (45:39):

Limited?

Joel Waldman (45:41):

Yeah. We need to get you on socials. I hate it personally, but it's a necessary evil in this world. I know this is gonna come out you know, a few days later, but the Supreme Court just ruled that TikTok can, can be banned. So it might be banned, which is gonna, it's gonna be, I, you know, I saw of all people, a cattle rancher, a young guy and he in, in Austin, Texas, and he uses TikTok to promote his business. And so many people do it now. I mean, if YouTube goes away, or, you know, apple Podcasts goes, a lot of people are gonna lose a lot of money. But I mean, the, how, how long have you, have you been doing the podcast?

Larry (46:25):

February, 2022?

Joel Waldman (46:29):

Yeah, it's about, it's about when we started maybe a hair before, but honestly, there is no real it, it's the Wild West. There's no real you know, firm advice I can give. But I'll tell you this, and I heard this, not a huge fan of his, but I heard this on Joe. I heard Joe Rogan saying this, and he's obviously got the most successful podcast in the world, you know, he said, we're living in a world of just instant gratification. You know, Instagram, you got these ten second videos of TikTok, ten second videos, whatever. But he said, there's a real thirst for, and this is why traditional media is dying. 'cause In that world, sound bites are eight to 12 seconds. Every time I have a guest on the show, the, the first thing they always say is, wow, I love this.

Joel Waldman (47:24):

Like, I can actually talk, 'cause most of them do, you know, traditional media, CNN, Fox News, and then they come on my show and they can actually talk for a long time. So the point I'm getting at with that is Joe Ro Rogan said, it's kind of counterintuitive. Everything is quick, but people are also like yearning for real conversation. So he, it's counterintuitive. Like when I told Carm I was gonna go five nights a week, she said, you're crazy. No one wants to listen to you. And I, this is not to sound immodest, and it's not me, it's the topics and the guests. But I get people saying, I I wish your show was three hours. I wish you did it seven days a week. So if you wanna stay busier, Larry, you can. How often do you put a podcast out?

Larry (48:07):

I started doing it once a week, excuse me. Then I went to twice a month. The last couple of months have understandably been yeah, no podcasts. Yeah. Getting back now without a staff, it's a lot of work.

Joel Waldman (48:33):

It it is. I'll tell you. I mean, I literally, people can't believe it. I mean, we have, my wife is a former CBS news correspondent. She's we call her the COE on the show, the Chief of Everything. And then I've got my, it's a family affair. My brother-in-law in California, in la he's like an audio file. So he does all the sound engineering and he puts everything out onto audio platforms. And then Steve Cohen good friend of mine from the TV days, he's our booking producer. So he, it's a very important role 'cause he books three guests a day every day. But we are running really the equivalent of like court TV or CNN with four people. Not the, you know, 20,000 people that some of these giant media companies you know employ. But it's definitely a changing world. I love it. At first it was really hard but it's back to your question about how do you get more subscribers? If you have it in you, the more content the better. And absolute consistency. You know, I obviously you had some serious mitigating circumstances. And again, I'm sorry about the loss of your wife, but you know, once you're back in a normal rhythm, the the more consistent and the more often you can do it, I think the better. To, to build a subscribership.

Larry (50:03):

The funny thing is, my son having been a TV director and now supervisor at CNBC, listens to my editing and said, you cut off the breath sounds <laugh>. I said,

Joel Waldman (50:27):

I don't. So I, yeah, I used to when I first started at M-S-N-B-C, it was so new. That was my first job ever, was being a producer at M-S-N-B-C. But the building hadn't been built yet. They built, it was, no one had ever seen anything like this. They put it in a warehouse in Secaucus, New Jersey, and it was massive. I mean, like 50,000 square feet. It was crazy. With a studio right in the middle of the newsroom. But anyway, it wasn't ready yet. So when I started working there, I was actually working out of the CNBC offices. So I know, I know CNBC, well, now they've of course, moved, but I bet you I know I probably crossed paths with your, with your son. Has he been at CNBC for all these years or

Larry (51:10):

For a long time? He was freelancer before that.

Joel Waldman (51:15):

Yeah. Yeah, I know. But now I know a lot of people. Yeah, we, we, we definitely know a lot of people in common. Yeah. So bars Jr. If you're listening, get me on CNBC. I'll talk my book. <Laugh> won't be the boring, it won't be the boring business stuff.

Larry (51:32):

<Laugh> Uhuh. This has been fun.

Joel Waldman (51:36):

Yeah.

Larry (51:37):

And if I, if I can get this synchronization straightened out in editing, it'll be even better <laugh>.

Joel Waldman (51:46):

So send it to send it to your son and have one of the, you know, professional editors there. Fix it for you. It's the least he can do for you.

Larry (51:53):

Yeah. Tell him <laugh>.

Joel Waldman (51:55):

I will. <Laugh>, what's his first name? Andy.

Larry (51:58):

Andy Barr. Andy.

Joel Waldman (51:59):

Okay.

Larry (52:00):

He's

Joel Waldman (52:00):

Been, I'm sure I been, I'm sure I've crossed paths.

Joel Waldman (52:04):

Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm sure, I'm sure I've crossed paths.

Larry (52:07):

We used to go to see some of his work in New York when he was freelancing, and he did almost all the daytime TV shows. So the audiences were 90% women and me. Yeah. And he would always have the cameraman come up the aisle and I knew what was happening. I'd get back to the, to the office and the patients would look at me and say, I saw you on television. <Laugh>. God, no,

Joel Waldman (52:40):

<Laugh>.

Larry (52:42):

Anyway.

Joel Waldman (52:43):

Well, if you want, if you wanna meet women getting into true crime, our audience is 82%. For some reason, women are very obsessive about true crime. It's 82% female demographics. So, but Larry, I mean, you're a natural. You, I love your interview style. I love the idea for the show. And if I can help or my mother can help in any way, please let us know.

Larry (53:05):

Thank you so much for coming on. Thank Carm as well. And it's been great talking to you.

Joel Waldman (53:14):

Yeah, I loved it. It's probably my favorite podcast and I'm not blowing smoke. I really, I really enjoyed it. And wishing you all the success in the world and only good things from here on in. Thanks.

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