Rick Sammon

Disclaimer: Unedited AI Transcript

Announcer (00:06):

You are connected and you are listening to specifically for seniors, the podcast for those in the Remember When Generation, today's podcast is available everywhere you listen to podcasts and with video at specifically for seniors YouTube channel. Now here's your host, Dr. Larry Barsh.

Larry (00:38):

How do you begin to introduce an award-winning photographer, a musician, a podcaster, a teacher, an author, a tour guide, a traveler, a philosopher, a canon explorer of light, and an inspiration to those of us still struggling to take the photograph easy, you just say, Rick Salmon. Rick, thanks so much for taking time from your busy schedule to come on specifically for seniors.

Rick Sammon (01:12):

Well, thank you so much. I've never been called a philosopher, but I do have a lot of different philosophies and yeah, it sounds like my mother wrote that intro, so thank you so much.

Larry (01:22):

She did, by the way, she <laugh>, I got it at the last minute.

Rick Sammon (01:28):

<Laugh>. Good. Hey, I hear you have Covid, so I'm sorry to hear that. I had it. My wife had it. Everybody I know has it and I'm sure everybody I know's gonna get it.

Larry (01:37):

Yeah, I've been away from it. I've escaped it until now, but so if I sound a little Yeah. On the voice, it's because of Covid. Anyhow. Well, I really mean a busy schedule. You just got back from Linda Gora and Goro Crater in Tanzania a couple of weeks ago.

Rick Sammon (01:59):

Yep.

Larry (01:59):

What were you photographing?

Rick Sammon (02:01):

Well, actually we were, we started out in Tarn, Gar Terryn Get gear, which is a park in the south. Then we went to Nego, go Crater. Then we went to the Central Serengeti, and then we went to the Northern Serengeti. And, you know, it's interesting my wife wanted to go there cause we, we have been to Kenya and Botswana in South Africa where you could drive off the road. So if you want to get that perfect shot, you know, you can, you can, you can drive off the road, ask the guy to maneuver around and do all this stuff. Well, I thought, okay, you know, we're gonna go to Tanzania. You have to stay on the road. Well, the thing is, the animals are in frightened of the vehicles there and we got so many amazing, amazing shots from the road. And so we went there to, you know, to photograph the wildlife. And we were lucky cuz we saw the we saw the the one morning we saw 5,000 animals zebra and Wildes crossing the Mara River. Oh. So it was an amazing, amazing trip that far exceeded my expectations.

Larry (03:03):

And you are off again in a couple of weeks.

Rick Sammon (03:07):

Well, we just came after that we went to Bos Gaela Apache to photograph the Birds New Mexico. If you have any bird lovers, I know there's a lot of bird lovers in your audience. BOS Gaela Apache in November, November and December, they have thousands and thousands and thousands of s snowies and sandal cranes that fill the sky, especially in the morning that an event called the Blast Off. So that's that's really a cool place. That's in New New Mexico. And then we're home for a while, and then we're gonna just go relaxing in Florida for a week. Delray Beach.

Larry (03:40):

Wako Hatchie.

Rick Sammon (03:41):

You've been to Wako Hatchie.

Larry (03:43):

I lived in Florida for five years.

Rick Sammon (03:46):

Oh. What made you move?

Larry (03:49):

Long story.

Rick Sammon (03:50):

Okay. <laugh>. Well, yeah, Wako Hatchie known to locals as wacko, right?

Larry (03:56):

Yeah.

Rick Sammon (03:57):

Wacko for short. But, you know, for bird lovers, well, Koa Hatchie and Green Key are amazing places to photograph birds. I've got some of my best pictures there, which proves you don't have to go to Tanzania on the other side of the world to get great pictures.

Larry (04:11):

No. Both places were about 15 minutes away from where we lived.

Rick Sammon (04:15):

Nice.

Larry (04:16):

So and I have a lot of friends in the community still down there who are Yeah. Working to perfect their bird photography.

Rick Sammon (04:26):

Well, I think birds in flight, as you know, this is like some of the hardest some of the hardest type of photography. Right. Cause yeah. The subject's moving, the background's changing, the exposure's changing. You know, the, we want to think about capturing gesture wings up or wings down and you know, we wanna get the eye in focus. So there's a lot to think about. But you know, as you know, technology has changed so much. You know, with the eye detection and animal tracking, you know, and 30 frames per second, it's, it's almost like iPhone photography, right. <Laugh>, you just point and shoot,

Larry (04:59):

You know, all of the discussions of photography. And, and this leads into it a little bit, talk about gear and technique. Yeah. As important as that is with all the advancements in cameras, there's, there's more to a photo photograph Yeah. That only a person can control art. Right. Storytelling, philosophy, passion. How do you feel about those aspects?

Rick Sammon (05:26):

Well, it's interesting that you asked that, and it's really a good question. I was watching you know, yoyo ma the cellist? Yep.

Rick Sammon (05:33):

Everyone knows Yoyo Ma. And I was watching his masterclass and he's telling a story and he's saying that, you know, years ago he was playing a concert and he realized he was playing it perfectly. It was so perfect. He said, I'm playing this perfectly. And he said to himself, I'm bored outta my mind. So he, he felt it. And at that time, he was just playing it perfectly. He wasn't expressing himself. So he's really into expression versus perfection. So you mentioned the gear. So yeah, people want, oh, the sharpest lens. They want to take out all the noise. They want to you know, zoom in and, and take out the pixels or clone out this, the expression is really what it's all about. And it's the exact same thing. You know, with music, you see the guitars in the back, you know, you could play a song perfectly, but if you don't express yourself like Santana or Robert Clapton or, you know, any, any of the great musicians out there, that's what they're interested in, in doing, expressing themselves. They're not interested in, well, they might be interested in perfection too. <Laugh>, I know Paul McCartney know they would record things you know, many, many times, you know, although he went into the studio and did Blackbird, I think in one take. So anyway, that's what I think what I try to stress to people, especially lately, that expression is way more important than perfection.

Larry (06:53):

How did you get interested in photography? You're obviously multitalented.

Rick Sammon (06:59):

Well many of your audience many of people in your audience may remember the 1960s TV show. Person to person with Edward Arm, Murrow, Edward Arm, Murrow, like the fame journalist in World War ii. He came back, he had the first live TV show when my father was the technical director of that show. And he would go to like with his Lindoff four by five view camera, go to Marilyn Monroe house, Joe DiMaggio's house. Humphrey Bogart's house. And he would photograph the houses before the show and they would bring the negatives back, develop 'em in our basement, and then bring 'em to work. And then, so they could see where to put the lights and, and the mics and all this stuff, and how they were gonna set up the cameras, whatever. So you know, at an early age, like, you know, 10, he's my father's developing it and showed me how to do it. Pictures in the basement on my mother's hand, coloring them with pencils is amazing.

Larry (07:55):

So that's how you got started?

Rick Sammon (07:57):

Well, that's how I got, I was interested in it. And you know, I just think photography is, it's always been fun. And, you know, Groucho Marx had had a saying. He said, if you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong. And you know, <laugh>, before we came on, you say, how do you do all this stuff? I really, the fun aspect is really important in my life. So, you know, we went to Tanzania to take pictures, but I told everybody my main goal is to have fun with Susan. And that's what we did.

Larry (08:26):

For those listeners who travel and like to include people in their photography, how do you recommend they interact with people of different cultures, different languages?

Rick Sammon (08:39):

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Well, it depends. You know, I tell people that my specialty is not specialized. And because I do like to do it all, but when it comes down to it, I really do like photographing people. So if I go to a place like Bhutan or Nepal, or, or actually I did did the same thing in in Tanzania. I bring magic tricks and I do magic tricks first. So I get the people to like me, or at least accept me into their lives by doing the magic tricks. And then I ask them, oh, could I take a picture here? Could I take a picture there? But, and, and the street photography, I, I just go up to people I say, you know, with a big smile. Could you do me a favor? Could I take a picture? I'd love to send you the picture.

Larry (09:21):

Yeah. Street photography is one of my favorites and mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I love taking pictures of people. Yeah. I love interacting where I don't have the language.

Rick Sammon (09:31):

Right.

Larry (09:32):

A smile and a wave and works wonders.

Rick Sammon (09:37):

Well, you know, there's an expression that it comes from Freeman Patterson in Canada. And his expression is that the camera looks both ways in picturing the subject, we're also picturing a part of ourselves. And this is true. So if I want to photograph, you know, someone in in Cuba and, and I want a big smile, I'll go and, Hey, can I take you a picture? You know, I'm smiling, things like that. But if I'm photographing a Buddhist monk in, in Cambodia, I'm gonna show a lot of respect. So I'm gonna act differently. So an an easier way to say that is that we're mirrors.

Larry (10:09):

I'd like to talk a bit about planning for a trip too. Sure. Most of the listeners here naturally are older adults. I like to say we're all in the remember when generations.

Rick Sammon (10:22):

Well, I, I like, I like to say sexy senior citizens.

Larry (10:26):

Yeah. Oh. Thank you. No, <laugh>

Rick Sammon (10:29):

<Laugh>. Well, you, you know, on, on that note, I was given a, I was given a presentation at a, at a retirement center actually in Florida, not too far from Delray. And I said, it's great. I said to one of the ladies there. I said, now thank you for coming. It's great to see you. She said, we'd ra <laugh>. She said, we'd rather be seen than viewed <laugh>.

Larry (10:52):

<Laugh>.

Rick Sammon (10:53):

It's a good one. Right?

Larry (10:54):

Yeah. That's good. Most of the trips, and I, and I say this from experience as well, most of the trips we take are escorted at this point in our lives. We're on a tour. We're so carrying a number of cameras, lenses, tripods becomes impossible because of the weight and the other people on the tour. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and other people on the tour want to go shopping <laugh>. Yeah. And not particularly tolerant of, right. Those of us who want to take our time to. Right. I mean, I was at Anchor Wash Yeah. With my wife, and we got to walk through for a couple of hours and people are saying, when are we gonna go to lunch?

Rick Sammon (11:47):

<Laugh>, right. I know.

Larry (11:48):

How do you, how do you, what cameras do you take? How do you get pictures of value in this type of situation?

Rick Sammon (11:56):

Yeah. Well, lately we've been trying to go by ourselves or, or we do. If you, you know, I would recommend going on a photo tour rather than a photo workshop. Photo workshops, you're gonna work, you're gonna be, you know, <laugh> doing a lot of processing, doing this and that. So photo tours are different where the photographer's just gonna show you around. So I think, I think photo tours are a great way to do this. And they're usually cheaper, also more affordable than, than photo workshops. So photo tour, I think is a, is a good way to go. But, you know, I, I, I know people who bring, you know, camera bags with every lens, you know, known to me and packed in there. They like bring eight lenses. I bring my iPhone and I bring a 24 to 1 0 5 if I'm doing street photography. And that might be it, wildlife photography. I bring a 100 to 400 or 500 and a 24 to 1 0 5.

Larry (12:49):

So you do a lot of travel photography with the iPhone as well.

Rick Sammon (12:53):

The iPhone's amazing. You know Susan, Sam and my wife got into this cause we've been married for 48 years next year. She's been sh she's been shooting seriously, I think for maybe about five or eight years, maybe longer. And I always said that, you know, through osmosis, she learned all this stuff from me. Now I'm learning so much stuff from her with the apps and stuff like that. She's a, and you know what I, I think one of the most important things I learned from her is to shoot wide. You know, I, I'm like I'm like big on cropping. I have O C d, obsessive cropping, disor disorder, <laugh>. And she gets amazing wide angle shots. So that's one of the things I learned from her. Also learned about all these apps, you know, the, i, the distressed fx, snape, all these amazing apps. There's so much she could do with the, with the iPhone. Well, the smartphone

Larry (13:52):

That, that's interest to you. Say that as a professional photographer.

Rick Sammon (13:57):

Well, look, look at the megapixels, right. That these and the new and the new iPhone with with the three lenses in it. This is amazing. You know, actually I have a friend who's surprised. She sees me taking pictures with the iPhone and I just sent her a link to I don't know if you know Russell Brown. He works at Adobe. Great photo. Dr. Russell Brown. What he did in the last year with the iPhone was incredible.

Larry (14:26):

I'll have to look that up.

Rick Sammon (14:28):

Russell, he's on Facebook. Dr. Russell Brown,

Larry (14:34):

Some specifics. Do you have one photograph you're especially proud of?

Rick Sammon (14:40):

Okay. I'm asked that question so many times. Yeah,

Larry (14:45):

I've gotta be,

Rick Sammon (14:46):

But, but the answers, the first one that comes to mind is a picture I took of my father. It was the last picture I took of him. He was in his den. He was 92 years, two years old. He was looking out the window and I thought, you know, he was fading. He was on a walker in his robe. And I thought, should I ask him if I could take his picture? And I finally did. And he might have known why I was taking the last picture, cuz it could, might be the last picture. So anyway, it captured him so beautifully with side light looking out the window. He was so happy. And so that would be my favorite picture.

Larry (15:26):

You mentioned that you were sort of a general photographer liking to take pictures of everything. Right. Is there one aspect you enjoy the most?

Rick Sammon (15:36):

Well, I, I'd like, I like the people photography, but I also love the processing. You know, the processing is just like a amazing, you know, this is not original thought. It's Ansel Adams thought he said that, you know, the, the negative is the score. Like, I play piano and guitar and then, you know, the performance is the processing. So, you know, I can look at sheet music, look at the sheet music, it's nice, but you start to play it, you know, it's amazing. You know, it comes to life. So the processing and there's so much we can do. You remember shooting slide film, right?

Larry (16:11):

Yep. You

Rick Sammon (16:11):

Know, if you didn't get it right, I used to do underwater photography and if we got one shot parole, cause we would bracket like crazy. We were happy. So today it's just so, so so easy.

Larry (16:27):

I remember yelling upstairs from the doc room. Nobody flushed the toilet. I've got temperature control issues down here.

Rick Sammon (16:35):

Really? Wow. Was that

Larry (16:38):

<Laugh>? Yeah. I couldn't go for big heaters and temperature control at the time. Right. But you're talking more about digital photography, digital processing now.

Rick Sammon (16:49):

Yeah, the digital processing is what we can pull out, you know, with from the shadows and tone down the highlights and and apply all these re you know, replace the sky. And I say some people, you know, if you're working for National Geo Geographic, you're not gonna replace the sky. But if you want to have fun and think like an artist and think like a painter, it's okay to replace the sky as long as you tell somebody you did it. <Laugh>.

Larry (17:16):

So is your philosophy that photography is more art than rendition of a scene?

Rick Sammon (17:24):

Well, I don't know if I would. I don't know if I would say that. Well, it is definitely art. But you know, along those lines, my friend, they there's an expression that says every photograph is a lie. Meaning that the what you choose to include in a scene isn't real, isn't always what the scene's like. So, you know, if I was like really close to the camera and I didn't have, and you couldn't and couldn't see the guitars in the back, I could say, you know, I'm coming to you from a hotel room in Mongolia. You right. <Laugh>. I mean, you wouldn't know. You would know that I'm in my studio. So we create our own reality, I think with our, with our photographs by what we choose to take out or include in a scene. You know, painting is, is additive. You know, painter looks at the canvas and decides what they want on the canvas. As photographers, we look at a scene and we say, what don't we want in the scene? Right.

Larry (18:24):

So moving a branch, taking out a discarded soda, can you really altering what was there?

Rick Sammon (18:33):

Well you are, and you know, a National Geographic photographer might not do that, but my guess a lot of these pictures are posed. I see pictures that I'm sure that I'm sure are set up. And there there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that. You know, Matthew, now this, this discussion actually went back to the Civil War. You know, Matthew Brady you know, one of the pro maybe the most photos, famous photojournalist of the Civil War, you know, had these amazing pictures of the soldiers with a gun here and the cannon in the back. And turns out he set 'em all up. You know, he would drag a body and things like that. So that's not photojournalism. What I do is certainly not photojournalism. What I do is font

Larry (19:20):

One of the most important parts of a portrait. Speaking of people photography,

Rick Sammon (19:25):

Well, getting back to the Greeks, Josephs Cheva claimed that he came up with this saying, and by the way, if your listeners want to look up a wonderful photographer, car Shava well, who my father actually had on person to person there's the saying is the eyes of the window, window to the soul. So I'm looking, you know, to get the, the expression and the eyes first, and to us usually light the eyes. But I'm also looking for gesture. Right? Gesture is, is so important. You know, that's why, you know, when I'm moving around with my hands, that's gesture. So gesture in bird photography, animal people, whatever gesture is so important. But I think you want to try to capture the person's personality.

Rick Sammon (20:11):

You know getting back to Ksh, one of his famous pictures was of Winston Churchill. And Winston Churchill is like scouring at the camera and it really captured his personality. And here's how Ksh got it. Ksh, you know Churchill was known for, you know, always having a cigar in his hand. So Winston Churchill said, I want to, I want to catch him off guard. I want to capture, you know, see, see how it would react, you know, if something unexpected that. So he has a, a remote trigger, you know, for his camera. So he goes up to he goes up to Churchill and he takes away a cigar. If your listeners and viewers look up Winston Churchill, kva, audible, they'll see how Winston Churchill scouring right in the camera. Like that. It's very intense.

Larry (21:02):

Okay. Away from photography for a minute. Yep. You are an accomplished musician as well.

Rick Sammon (21:09):

Yep.

Larry (21:09):

And you provide guitar lessons on the internet at your website. Yep. Is that part of being an artist? Do the two activities combined?

Rick Sammon (21:24):

Well you know, we mentioned an Adams a few times. He was a concert pianist.

Larry (21:29):

Was he Scott?

Rick Sammon (21:31):

He was amazing. Scott Kelby, you know, Kelby won, probably actually he sells he's a top selling Photoshop book author in the world, maybe Photoshop and photographer computers. He's amazing on guitar and piano and drums at Photoshop World. I play with him. So many of my photographer Plen friends, you know, I could go. Tony Sweet, great photographer plays drums. Joe Brady photographer plays plays bass mark Heaps from Adobe, or not Adobe at life Pixel. He plays beautiful guitar. So, you know, people who are good at one thing are usually good at a lot of things.

Larry (22:15):

Interesting. And speaking of good at a lot of things, let's talk about your passion for teaching.

Rick Sammon (22:22):

Yeah.

Larry (22:23):

You guide tours. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> present seminars. You've written more than 40 books on almost every aspect of photography. And the business of photography, how to make money while you're sleeping.

Rick Sammon (22:39):

That's, that's my latest book and my most popular book.

Larry (22:43):

<Laugh>. Yeah. I don't doubt it. We, well,

Rick Sammon (22:47):

You know what, I got the idea. I was on Twitter and I saw a quote from Warren Buffet and he says, if you don't learn how to make money when you're sleeping, sleeping, you're gonna work until you're dead. <Laugh>. So I said, Hey, that probably applies to photography. He's talking about passive income. So in that book, how to Make Money While You're Sleeping, which is available on Amazon, I talk about all the different ways photographers or actually artists can make money while they're sleeping.

Larry (23:20):

Where where does that aspect of your life come from? The teaching aspect?

Rick Sammon (23:26):

Well I started out teaching guitar and piano, and I really like it. And it's, I I, I don't know how I evolved into this. You know, they say they, you know, the expression is people, people who can't do teach. Well, look at Yo-Yo Ma, right? Yo-Yo MA's teaching, right. Martin Scorsese's teaching Annie Leitz is teaching. So I think there's also, you know, good money in teaching, to be honest, right? I mean, people wanna learn.

Larry (24:01):

I taught at a dental school for a, I'm a dentist wrenchingly. And

Rick Sammon (24:06):

Well, you know what I wanted to ask you. I have a

Larry (24:08):

Idea. <Laugh>, take your best shot. <Laugh>. Why do I always bring that up? But I wrote a textbook on how to plan treatment in dentistry. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> and used some of Ansel Adams concepts on pre-visualization.

Rick Sammon (24:27):

Really?

Larry (24:27):

Yeah, it was, it was an interesting experiment.

Rick Sammon (24:31):

Is that available?

Larry (24:33):

Not anymore. This was 1980 ish.

Rick Sammon (24:37):

Wow. So

Larry (24:39):

One question that has little to do with photography. You've traveled around and you've returned to places. Has there been a change due to climate change?

Rick Sammon (24:50):

Well, absolutely. If your viewers wanna see something go on YouTube, type in Rick Salmon in a t-shirt in Antarctica. That's change. Susan and I, we scuba dived. All we did was scuba diving and take underwater pictures for 20 years. We can't go back or don't want to go back to some of the places like the Great Barrier Reef, which are not in good shape. The Maldives key Largo closer to home, the reefs around the world. My son, if he was scuba diving, is not, definitely not gonna see what, what we, what we saw. And the weather patterns are changing all over the planet. We were in Tanzania at quote the wrong time. Cause our trip was delayed and the animals were still, still there. Cause they, they didn't have to move to follow Lorraine. So climate change is affecting everything. And you don't have to go to Tanzania or Antarctica or the Arctic or Greenland where the ice is melting fast than anywhere else on the planet. Just look, go look out in your own backyard and see how, see how the, the climate is changing.

Larry (26:05):

I snorkeled over the Great Barrier Reef. Just, yeah, tourists. Amazing. Right? There are no fish.

Rick Sammon (26:13):

Oh, recently you

Larry (26:14):

No, this was a couple of years ago.

Rick Sammon (26:16):

No, that's recently.

Larry (26:17):

Yeah.

Rick Sammon (26:19):

No fish on the Great Barrier Reef. Yeah. That's so sad.

Larry (26:24):

Yeah. Okay. One more thing.

Rick Sammon (26:28):

Sure.

Larry (26:30):

You just wrote a book that has no images, a photo book that has no images. Yeah. Tell me about it.

Rick Sammon (26:40):

Yeah. It's, it's called, I have it right here. It's called Phototherapy Motivation and wisdom. It wasn't gonna be called Phototherapy. And then my wife said, oh, add motivation and Wisdom. Yeah. And it has no pictures in it. And what I wanted to do, I, so this is not the first photography book, by the way, written with no pictures in it. But I thought it'd be a challenge. And I actually became a fa number one bestseller on Amazon in a relatively short period of time. But I didn't want people to be distracted by a sunset picture or a wildlife picture. And I just wanted them to really think, think about photography, including, you know, I'm looking for the chapter here on chapter page seven here. I ask people, what, what does your photography mean to you? And so this is more of a philosophical book.

Rick Sammon (27:34):

So, you know, photography is so important to people. Here are some of the things people said. An escape, everything, exploration, playing, fun, my social life. Someone said, I have no choice. Freedom owning art, art heals. How about that living legacy, staying fresh? And I'll leave the last, well, there's a, there's a lot here, but save my life. So I realized how important pH photography is to people. And I got that idea also from social media. I saw a, a book on Twitter called Bird Ther Bird Therapy. And that book talks about how important you know, it is to watch birds and how you could, you know, you've, you've heard in like in nursing homes, they have aquariums. People watch the fish swim around. Well, that's very therapeutic. So anyway, I think photography is so therapeutic, so rewarding, so fun, and helps us grow and stay stay young.

Larry (28:35):

I know it's been a big part of my life as well.

Rick Sammon (28:39):

Yeah.

Larry (28:39):

So what you're saying is Right, right on track.

Rick Sammon (28:46):

Yeah. Yeah. I ask people that question sometimes. I just did a workshop, we went around the table and two people got emotional because it's just so in, so important to them.

Larry (29:00):

And I think the, the act of taking the photograph you see more, you learn more. You involve yourself more in the culture of, of where you are.

Rick Sammon (29:17):

Well, that is so true. You know, like with music, there's a big difference between hearing and listening. And, you know, you could be driving around in the car with your friends, whatever, and the best song in the world could be on and you could just hear it. But if you're by yourself, you might listen to it. You might listen to the bass, the drums, the vocals, the violins, whatever's there. And if photography is the same thing, there's a big difference between, you know, looking and seeing a lot of people, you know, just go to the, whatever, the Grand Canyon and they see it. But a photographer go there and look. And so I like to use that analogy a lot, that there's a big difference between in music hearing and listening and photography, looking and seeing

Larry (30:03):

Any other books, tours, seminars, or workshops you want to talk about?

Rick Sammon (30:09):

No. I have those books are, are two, two of my favorites. And I I have a Tanzania workshop coming up next year, but it's full. So yeah, everything else is, everything else is pretty good.

Larry (30:24):

Anything we missed?

Rick Sammon (30:26):

No. you did a great job. And I wish I had you as a dentist, you know, when I was younger. <Laugh>

Larry (30:33):

<Laugh>. Yeah. Well, it's,

Rick Sammon (30:35):

You have, you have a, you have a good chairs, like a doctor has a bedside manner. You have a good chairside manner.

Larry (30:40):

Well, that took about 40 years to develop

Rick Sammon (30:44):

<Laugh>. Right.

Larry (30:44):

So I'm, I'm way away from that now.

Rick Sammon (30:49):

Yeah.

Larry (30:51):

Anyhow, Rick, this has been exciting. I thank you for coming on specifically for seniors.

Rick Sammon (30:58):

Well, thank, thank you. Being a, a, a sexy senior citizen, I hope myself, it's been, it is been a pleasure. And you did a, you did a great job.

Larry (31:07):

Thanks Rick.

Rick Sammon (31:08):

Thank you, my friend.

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