No Snowflake in an Avalanche Ever Feels Responsible - James Geary

Disclaimer: Unedited AI transcript

Announcer (00:06):

You are connected and you are listening to specifically for seniors, the podcast for those in the Remember When Generation. Today's podcast is available everywhere you listen to podcasts and with video at specifically for seniors YouTube channel. Now, here's your host, Dr. Larry Barsh.

Larry (00:36):

Today's guest on specifically for seniors is a man who can actually use the word ology in a sentence. <Laugh> James Gary is the deputy curator of the Neiman Foundation for journalism at Harvard and former editor of the European Edition of Time Magazine. He is the author of five books Wit End What Wit Is and How It Works and Why We Need It. I is another, the Secret Life of Metaphor and How it shapes the way we see the world. Gary's guide to the world's great Aorist, the New York Times bestseller, the World in a phrase, a brief history of the aphorism and the body electric, an anatomy of the new bionic senses, and to Boot amateur juggler <laugh> <laugh>, welcome to specifically for seniors. James, it's great to have you on.

James Geary (01:41):

Well, thank you so much Larry. And thank you for the invitation. I'm delighted to be here

Larry (01:46):

And we're very glad to have you. Let's start with your journalism background first. You are the editor of the quarterly print publication from the Neiman Foundation. What's the Neiman Foundation? What's the purpose?

James Geary (02:05):

Yeah, the Neiman Foundation will be 85 years old this year celebrating its 85th anniversary, and it's a fellowship for for professional journalists at Harvard University. Each year, about two dozen journalists, about half from the US and about half from outside the US come to Harvard for an academic year to work on research and study plans that have to do with furthering their goals and ambitions in in journalism. So I was a Neiman Fellow back in 2011, 2012, and just finished 10 years as, as deputy curator of the Neiman Foundation and Neiman Fellows come to Harvard and they spend an academic year auditing courses and steeping themselves in their, in their study plans. And the foundation itself also has a kind of curriculum that is focused on journalism and enhancing the, the professional skills of, of the, the journalists who come to the come to the foundation.

Larry (03:14):

How did your journalism background lead to your interest in aphorisms, meta metaphors, puns, or was it the other way around or what?

James Geary (03:25):

It's it's kinda both ways around. Actually the, when I was a child growing up, there were two, there were very few books in, in our house, but there were two primary sources of reading material. And I was an avid reader as a, as a child. And the first one was Time Magazine. And ironically enough I ended up working for Time Magazine. My parents were regular subscribers and we used to keep the magazine in the bathroom where everyone had a chance to, to read it during trips to the, to the bathroom. And that's where I first encountered journalism. And the second source of reading material was Readers Digest magazine that was also kept in the bathroom, which doubled as our, as our library <laugh> in our, in our house. And in Reader's Digest. I first encountered quotable quotes, which is a page in, in every print edition of a magazine, which has just kind of a, a list of quotations usually from celebrities, sometimes from writers. And I was eight years old. I remember this very distinctively when I encountered the, the quotable quote section. And I still remember the first quotable quote that I read in, in reader's Digest. And it was the difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.

James Geary (04:52):

And I had no idea that that was an aphorism, a short, witty, philosophical saying when I was eight years old. But as a, as an avid young reader just beginning to you know, become interested in in reading books and things like that, that phrase always stuck with me. And the quota quotes always stuck with me. And when I was older, a teenager and, you know, taking literature classes in high school and things like that I started collecting aphs. So my love for aphorisms which are basically work by it by metaphor, my love for Africanisms metaphor and width can be traced back to those two early reading experiences with Reader's Digest and, and Time Magazine. And both of those publications ended up being crucial, <laugh> crucial for my future professional career as a journalist and, and as an author. And I do think they, they inform each other aphorisms and metaphor and, and journalism. Writing in general really has everything to do with how you use metaphor and figurative language to communicate complex ideas. And that's crucial, crucial for journalism but also crucial for all kinds of, of writing.

Larry (06:13):

I, at this point, I'm gonna credit my son who wrote my favorite aphorism.

James Geary (06:19):

Oh, excellent.

Larry (06:20):

All waffles have squares and there's nothing you can do about it,

James Geary (06:26):

<Laugh>.

Larry (06:28):

So

James Geary (06:29):

That's, that's a, that's a great one.

Larry (06:31):

You had an aphorism collection as a kid.

James Geary (06:36):

Absolutely. I had you know, like many teenagers, I had posters of rock stars on my, on my bedroom walls. I was fond Floyd and David Bowie and George Harrison. And when I started collecting a, I took the posters off the wall and turned the picture <laugh> to face the wall and it back up. And I started writing the writing the aphs on the back of the posters. So within a few years, my, my room was covered with with a written on the back of these posters. I still have those posters. They're right over there, <laugh>. And that's how my collecting got started. And it's actually, it's a very <laugh> I was gonna say, it's a very commonplace activity. And the results of people who collect sayings and quotations and aphorisms are called commonplace books. And they have a very, very long history in, in literature of of scholars and, you know philosophers, but also just ordinary folks who came across words to live by, like the one you, you, you quoted from your son and wanted to preserve them somehow so that they could refer to them again.

James Geary (07:55):

And that's what led to you know, common, the creation of commonplace books in the Middle Ages. And the commonplace books of the Middle Ages are the ancestors of the quotes for the day and the daily diaries with, with quotes on them that we see. Today, you know, you go through the checkout at the grocery store around Christmas time, and you'll always find those kind quotation books there and calendars with memorable sayings and things like that. So it's a very, very long tradition that I kind of inadvertently stepped into thanks to, thanks to Readers Digest.

Larry (08:32):

Just so we can define an aphorism, clearly you have five laws that define aphorisms.

James Geary (08:44):

Yes. those are the five laws of the aphorism, which you know, I very grandly titled them five, the Five Laws of the A, but I completely made them up myself and <laugh> reasonable people, reasonable people can disagree. Let's see if I can remember them now. It has to be short. An app is, is is brief. It's one or two sentences at the most, like a, a short paragraph. It has to be personal. It has to have an identifiable author. I never let school interfere with my education, mark Twain. But other sayings like Let Sleeping Dogs Lie, that that was had originally had had an author back in the, in the dark e dark mists of time. But over, over centuries of use the, the identity of the author has been worn away. And so it becomes a proverb.

James Geary (09:42):

It must be definitive. So like your son's aphorism doesn't say under certain circumstances, the following may be true, or if the conditions are right, this or that may be the case. It's very definitive. Again never let school, I never let school interfere with Your education does not equivocate. It's just very direct. And the last two laws are, it must be philosophical and it must be, it must have a twist. So aphorisms, I think, are different from cliches or the kinda things you might get or read in a greeting card. Aphorisms don't make you feel good about yourself. They make you think, they make you question your beliefs and they make you just kind of pause. They have a sort of philosophical component to them, and often have a literary or psychological twist. No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.

James Geary (10:42):

That's an aph Byz, a polish writer from the 1960s. And that's for me is, is a great, has a, it's, it's, first of all, it's a, it's a hundred percent metaphor. There's nothing <laugh> if you think about the literal meaning of that sentence or any of the words in it, it doesn't make any sense at all. So it's a hundred percent metaphor, but it also has a kind of psychological twist to it, and it's very philosophical. It's a, it's a pretty perceptive comment on group think and the power of mass psychology or buying into mass psychology. So those are the, those are the five laws. Those are the five characteristics that define an do

Larry (11:26):

They have to be true?

James Geary (11:28):

Nope, they don't have to be true. And they can also be contradictory. <Laugh>, you know, there are, there are misery loves company. You can have, I'm trying to think of examples that, that contradict each other. You, you'll find aphorisms that promote the virtue of solitude, for example. But you also find aphorisms that promote the virtue of solidarity and community. And both those things are true in certain circumstances. The, so an aphorism doesn't, I think, has a psychological or philosophical truth to it. While it may be factually irrelevant or maybe factually a non-sequitur and some people will find certain aphs true for themselves, and some people will find those not applicable to them, applicable to themselves. But that is, I think, dependent on the person and the person's situation. Like that, that the, the, the, the, the first aism I read in, in Reader's Digest, the difference between a rut and a grave is the death.

James Geary (12:42):

As an eight year old boy, that didn't mean much to me. I, I, I was intrigued by the way that the language was used, and I was fascinated by that, but I didn't quite know what it meant. So for me, that was not true at the time. Later on, as you know, I had various jobs and, and, and various, various experiences in life. The difference between a rut and a grave became very, very true and very, very poignant and very, very pointed for me. So I think the truth of an aphorism really depends on the life situation that you're in when you, when you first encounter it.

Larry (13:21):

I mentioned you were an amateur juggler. You juggle while you're reciting your five laws of aphorisms. Why?

James Geary (13:31):

Sorry, why

Larry (13:32):

<Laugh>? Why

James Geary (13:35):

Just because it's fun and I think juggling is I, I I love to juggle. It's great for your mental and physical health, and it seems it looks a lot harder than it is. I had a friend when I lived in Amsterdam who I actually wrote a story, a about him and his company in which he taught people how to juggle. And as part of the research for that story, I, he taught me to juggle. And I kept, I've kept juggling ever since. But for me, juggling is a metaphor <laugh> for aphorisms for wit. And how we, as, as human beings, are constantly juggling meanings in our mind. So if you think of a, you know, a joke or a pun or, or something like that there's, for a pun, for example, there's multiple multiple meanings active in your mind at the same time.

James Geary (14:29):

There's a great pun by 17th century aristocrat, who, I think it was King Louis the 16th. He was out strolling in the garden at Versa, or some, some chateau somewhere. And he encountered the king. And this aristocrat was famous for his wit and for his ability to make puns on the spot. And the king encountered him all of a sudden in the garden now for a walk. And he said to this guy, you who are so good at making puns, make a pun on me right now. And without stopping aep, this guy said, the king is not a subject <laugh>. So when you think about that, pun, the, the word king and subject have multiple meanings. And what makes a pun, what makes a pun make you laugh or make you grown, is your perception of those multiple meanings at simultaneously at the same time.

James Geary (15:31):

And that's what juggling is. You've got three balls and you're keeping them all in the air all at the same time. And when you're doing that, you're able to if you watch someone when they're juggling, they're not looking at individual balls, they're looking at the whole space in front of them. And if you were as a juggler to focus on individual balls, you would drop, you would drop 'em all. Because you have to keep your attention on the whole field, and you have to know where all three balls are at all times. And the only way to do that is by having this diffuse very broad attention. It's very, very intense, intense attention and very focused attention, but it's very broad. And so your ability to juggle depends on being able to see all those balls, three balls at the same time, just like your ability to get a pun or a joke to understand that, or to make a pun or a joke, is that the ability to hold multiple meanings of words in, in your mind at the same time.

Larry (16:38):

Let's move on to metaphors. Can you define a metaphor simply

James Geary (16:45):

<Laugh>? Yes. Asking, asking me to define a metaphor simply is a very difficult question. <Laugh>, but thank you. Larry. Metaphor is well, I think Aristotle came up with the best definition. It's a metaphor, is when you give the name of one thing to something else. And very famous example is Juliet is the son from Romeo, and Juliet, Shakespeare's great play, and Juliet is the son. There's a mathematical equation that you could use for, for that is X equals y. And at it, at its simplest, a metaphor is just giving one thing a name that belongs to something else. And usually it's that thing. You're giving the thing a name that you already know, so you know what the sun is like and what the sun does, but you don't know what Juliet is like and what, and, and what Juliet does. So you give the thing that you know, and the name of the thing that, you know, you give that to something that you don't know.

James Geary (17:50):

And when you do that, you not, you don't just transfer the name, but you transfer a whole kind of very complex and extensive network of associations and analogies. And so the things that you understand about the sun, it's bright, it's life giving, it's warm, it's hot. You transfer those things onto the thing you don't know, Juliet. And that's how metaphor teaches us or makes us able to comprehend or get some insight into the unknown things that are new. Like, you're on a computer right now. I'm on a computer right now. What do we call, what we're looking at right now? We call it a desktop. And that's a metaphor for something that we understand. We understand what a desk is, people use desks. But when computers were first invented, people didn't understand them or how to use them. So that we created the metaphor and we, we said, well, there's gonna be a desktop and you're gonna have files, and there's gonna be a trashcan, <laugh>.

James Geary (18:53):

And essentially the, the whole computer use metaphor is transferring what we understand about desks to how we interact with this new thing called a called a computer. So that's a really good example of how metaphor is very simple, and it seems obvious, but it actually is very complex. And when you're using a metaphor, and we're using them all the time, anytime we, we talk or even think about abstract notions, emotions feelings, ideas, we have to use metaphor because we understand things through being able to make them concrete and be able to visualize them. So yeah, you can say, well, that's very simple. Desktop computer. Yes, I understand. But, but underneath <laugh>, the underneath the name is a whole network of, of, of complex associations, sort of like the roots of you know, a tree that they go deep into the ground and they're connected to all kinds of other things and all kinds of other plants in your garden. And I've just used the metaphor to describe metaphor.

Larry (20:04):

So you could ask Facebook, what is metaphor?

James Geary (20:08):

Ah, <laugh>, yes.

Larry (20:10):

Yep. But that's a pun. <Laugh>.

James Geary (20:12):

That's a pun. That's a pun. And you've just, pud you've just made us all juggle mentally, Larry,

Larry (20:18):

I, I've gotta stop doing that. 

James Geary (20:24):

I, I, no, I think you should continue to do it because yeah, that's what keeps your mind agile and nimble

Larry (20:32):

In more recent times. You mentioned that Elvis used metaphors frequently.

James Geary (20:39):

Yeah. And Elvis, well, any kind of popular music, it's filled with metaphors. My, my favorite Elvis song is All Shook up. And if you were to kind of take the lyrics to that song and analyze them as a piece of literature, it's just one <laugh>, it's one metaphor after another. I'm all shook up. My love is like a buttercup her lips are like a volcano that's hot. When you use the word like, or as that's assimilate of course it's a slightly different form of figurative language. But in my, in, in my thinking assimilate is just a metaphor with the scaffolding still up. So, you know, Elvis is in, in that song, is just using a string of metaphors, again, like Shakespeare to describe his feelings for, for, for this person. And of course, Elvis himself has become <laugh> a metaphor for, for so much. And it, I think, you know, the, the phrase Elvis has left the building is has become a catchphrase and is used in all kinds of different circumstances. And it's really a metaphor for, you know, something that has come to an end. Some mo mo momentous event, you know, is, is over. And people just say Elvis has left the building. And we all understand what that means because we all know Elvis, and we all have the metaphorical context to, to understand those references.

Larry (22:14):

So metaphors are really an essential part of language.

James Geary (22:20):

Yes. And I, I think it's, it's very hard to overstate how important metaphors are. They are, yeah, they're, they're even more than essential. They, they are the basis of, of language. It's not like they're essential, but you could have some stripped, stripped down form of language that didn't that didn't contain metaphors. You would, it would be very, very hard to communicate anything like of complexity, like feelings or thoughts or ideas without using metaphor. If you just look at the news, I mean, what's in the news this, this morning, the, the talk about the debt ceiling. The debt ceiling, it's a metaphor. <Laugh>, the ceiling debts don't have ceilings. But we use that metaphor to help us understand a very, very complex financial situation for, for the United States. And the, the debt ceiling is a kind of simplification and, and condensation of all the complexity that's going, going on going on behind the scenes in those negotiations.

James Geary (23:31):

If you just listen to the words that I'm speaking and the words that you're speaking, I just used a phrase behind the scenes, that's another metaphor. So we use the, we use metaphors unconsciously and instinctively. And so much of our language is metaphorical. We don't even realize we don't even realize that we're using metaphors most of the, most of the time. There's been one estimate that we use about in, in ordinary conversation. We use about six metaphors a minute. But I think that's, I think that's an underestimate. So, and even very simple words like to comprehend, if you think about the etymology of, of words like comprehend their metaphors comprehend the original meaning of, of the word means to grasp or to grab something. So a lot of metaphors are based on physical actions. Like I, I hear what you're saying means I understand you to comprehend, to grasp something also means to, to, to understand someone. Do you see what I mean? That's another metaphor where we're using seeing to, to, to be a metaphor for, for understanding. So language is, is rooted deeply in, in, in metaphor. Rooted is another metaphor. You just can't <laugh>, you just can't stop using them. And we would not be able to we would not be able to communicate with each other in the kind of rich, emotionally dense way that we do with without metaphor.

Larry (25:13):

And the way something is metaphorically defined can actually change the way you perceive the subject. That's right. Like in financial, in financial markets.

James Geary (25:29):

Yeah, I think that's a really good example. The, the, you know, we're talking of the, the inflation is in the news so much, and the debt ceiling negotiations and default and things like that. If you listen to or read any news really, but financial news in particular, pay attention to, to the metaphors. When stock prices are, are rising, for example they will be described using metaphors of, of living things. So stock prices are climbing or soaring <laugh>, and what climbs, what sores living things climb, living things, soar animals, people birds, when price stock prices are falling, they plummet like a stone or fall like a brick or a fall off a cliff. Those metaphors ha those kind of metaphors have to do with dead things, <laugh>, you know, things that are, or inanimate objects. And you know, the, those metaphors also trigger, just as we were talking about earlier, how metaphors trigger a complex, complex network of associations.

James Geary (26:42):

They also trigger emotions that go along with those associations. So when something is plummeting like a stone or falling like a brick or falling off a cliff, that's got an emotional connotation that is kind of scary and kind of alarming, whereas something that's soaring and climbing has a positive connotation. So studies have been done that looked at how people react to those, the use of those kind of metaphors when it comes to stock prices and fi and finance. And people have greater expectations that when something is described as climbing or soaring, that it will continue to climb and continue to soar because it's a living thing. And that's what living things do. And the opposite for falling like a stone or plummeting like a brick, those things will stay, stay down and stay dead, because that's what inanimate objects do. But actually price stock prices fluctuate all the time, <laugh>.

James Geary (27:41):

And one of the basic tips for, for smart investing is not to be emotionally involved in any individual stock price movement to try and look at them over time. So, and this is another connection with journalism. If we want to present information accurately and not inappropriately influence, even subconsciously how people are reacting to stock price movements, we should describe them in as neutral a way as possible. I don't think it's possible to describe them completely neutrally cause everything is ultimately metaphorical. But you could say, you know, stock prices rose or they fell, or they increased or they decreased. That has a, just listen to those words as composed to soar as, as compared to soaring and, and climbing or falling or plummeting. They have a different emotional connotation. And I think that's true for all kinds of social issues, political issues, to be very, very conscious and deliberate in the choice of metaphors that we use to describe these things.

James Geary (28:47):

Because those metaphors frame literally, that's another metaphor frame. It's the best metaphors are both literally and metaphorically true <laugh>. But the choice of language frames an issue. And you just have to read the news and look at how the different ways that politicians from different political parties describe the same issues or the same events. And they choose totally different words. And those different words, those different metaphors activate different emotions in the people who, who hear them. And politicians are doing that deliberately, <laugh>. They're, they are, they are deliberately attempting to influence how we think. But the more aware we are of the metaphors that we use, the more aware we are of the metaphors that other people use, and the more aware we are of how they're trying to influence, influence us, and the better able we will be to make our own decisions apart from those those associations that other people are, are placing on us by the, by the metaphors that they use. It's not like we, we won't feel those associations. We always feel them, even if it's unconscious. But making them conscious enables us to step back and say, okay, I, I see why politician X is using this word to describe this issue, and that triggers me in a particular positive or negative way. But I can step back from that cause I can see what that person is doing and I make my own decision.

Larry (30:23):

Moving on.

James Geary (30:25):

There's another metaphor, Larry. Moving on.

Larry (30:28):

Many websites have an f a Q page, frequently asked questions. You have an F u Q page, frequently unasked questions. This segues nicely into talking about puns and wit. <Laugh>, forgive me. Why does wit matter?

James Geary (30:53):

Yeah, wit matters because I think wit is, it's related to metaphor in the sense that wit is also, like, wit is like juggling as well. It's making combinations of different things and being able to take information from very disparate fields and combine them into, into something new. So if you think about like scientific discovery or artistic creation, for me wit is the ability to combine, combine things from unexpected places to create something new. So a great example would be like someone like Picasso, who in the realm of art, who in hi in some of his work just kind of took, found objects and like a bicycle handlebar from a bicycle and a seat from a bicycle. And he combined them in new ways to make a sculpture of a bull. And that, for me is a great demonstration of the, the human mind's ability to synthesize information from different sources and to, so that's kind of the, the input and have the output be something fresh, new, original creative, whether it's a, a work of art or a piece of literature or a pun <laugh>, because pun is the, is the is the same thing.

James Geary (32:28):

It's being able to take these different meanings of, of words that sound the same, and to create, to create something new that is, that relies on combining those those different meanings in, in unexpected ways.

Larry (32:44):

You claim that a pun is the highest form of wish. I agree. But why

James Geary (32:50):

<Laugh>? Why? Because it's both the, I think because it's a demonstration of the principle of the, the minds creative potential. So there's Charles Lamb was a a 19th century English poet, and he was friends with Samuel Taylor, Taylor Coleridge, and Charles Lamb. They, and they both lived in London and, you know, were friends. And Charles Lamb was a very shy person, and Kohl Ridge invited them over for, for for dinner one evening. And he just wanted him to kind of engage in conversation and, and, and not be as shy as he typically was in social gatherings. So Coleridge said to lamb, please come for dinner, but don't be so sheepish, <laugh>. And lamb said to Kohler, I will, so that you can, you can <laugh> think of that as just kind of like harmless banter between friends, but the, the ability to make those kind of connections in the moment is the essence of whip, because it is that sort of combinatory play.

James Geary (34:15):

Albert Einstein talked about his scientific method as combinatory clay taking pieces of information and throwing them in the air and mixing them up and shaking them up and juggling them around, playing with them to produce new ideas and new theories. And so, why I think a puns are the, the highest form of wit is because they demonstrate that wit is something that we all have and that we all do instinctively. So, you know, Kohl Ridge and, and Lamb had the kind of punning friendship that, that that led to that encounter. But the fact that you and I understand those puns means we are thinking the same way. And what's, what's amazing about puns, and this is true of jokes as well, is that the level of wit required to make a pun is the same as the level of wit required to understand the pun.

James Geary (35:13):

So the person who makes the pun and the person who understands the pun, are actually engaging in the same cre creative activity, because a pun or a joke is never explained. I didn't explain the relationship between the lamb and sheepish and wool, but you got it. I got it. So that means that that combination is taking place in my brain when I make the pun. But the same activity is taking place in your brain when you get the pun. And there's no explanation. There's no kind of like, well, this has to do with, with that. And as we all know, you know, having to explain a joke, destroys destroys the joke. So my theory of puns is that the, the highest form of width is because they, it's because they demonstrate that wit is just, just the way we think, and that everybody has the disability and everybody is actually using it all the time. They're just not conscious of it.

Larry (36:08):

And you talked about Abraham Lincoln used puns.

James Geary (36:13):

Yeah. And <laugh> often you know, you seem to be a, a pun fanatic like me, Larry. And often our family members, friends don't appreciate our puns as much as we appreciate our puns. But I think people who are prone to punning are kind of in a way celebrating this creative ability of, of, of language not just of language, but of, but of the human mind. And Abraham. And I think also panels can help us keep our, you know, when you talk about wit, how do we use the word wit? You wanna keep your wits about you. You wanna live by your wits. And I, so wit is kind of essential to functioning, just functioning in life and different situations. And I think puns kind of like I was saying earlier, keep your mind fresh and keep it agile, but also keep it flexible because you know, you have to, what is life?

James Geary (37:16):

But dealing with a series of unexpected events. And so Abraham Lincoln, while he was president, was, was always punning. And, you know, some, some might consider that like offensive or trivial because he's got so much <laugh>, so much more serious things to consider. But for me, it was an example of his equilibrium and his mental toughness and his men mental resilience, being able to pun like he did under, under the pressure that he was under. That was during the Civil War. So one example he was walking down the street with, actually, I think it was his Secretary of Defense at, at the time, and they came across a sign that says, just a shop sign. And his Secretary of Defense read it out loud, t r Strong and tr Strong was the name of the shopkeeper. And Lincoln immediately said, yeah, t r strong, but coffee are stronger <laugh>.

James Geary (38:20):

So that's a silly pun. But for me, it's like I said, an evidence evidence of Abraham Lincoln's ability to keep his wits about him, <laugh> literally and figurative figuratively at a time of immense pressure and immense strain and immense stress. And I think that's what, that's what is important for all of us because we, you know, we're, we all have experiences of stress and pressure and crisis. And keeping your wits about you is essential to getting, to getting through, through those crisis. And it also has to do with aphorisms, Larry. Cuz when I'm in experiencing moments of crisis or doubt, aphorisms come to me. And they kind of are signposts on the way through a situation to guide me through a situation. One of my favorites is from Winston Churchill, again during World War ii, a man with a lot on his mind, <laugh> and you know, at a moment of intense crisis. And one of the things that he said that I, that I always remember is, when you're going through, hell keep going.

Larry (39:37):

Or that day in March, pie day in March, PI r square, the formula. Yes. And the response, and the response is, no, no, no. Pie round brownies. Our square <laugh>.

James Geary (39:52):

Exactly.

Larry (39:54):

So aphorisms metaphors went all fit into great writing.

James Geary (40:02):

Yes, I think they do. And I think Ralph Emerson great great American philosopher and atheist, he said, writing is thinking. And that is something that I also believe. And like I was just saying about wits, when you're keeping your wits about you and, and you're living by your wits, that there are certain characteristics about that, that transfer into, into writing. So the first one is concision. You know, keeping things very concise and very precise and concise are in my, in my opinion, kind of fundamental values of, of really good writing. This is especially important in journalism where you're trying to communicate facts in a, in a, in a, in a kinda brisk accessible way. But it's also true for all forms of writing where one of the key, the key challenges is to keep people's attention. Whether you're writing a novel, a memoir, nonfiction journalism, concision of presentation and precision of description are, are absolutely key.

James Geary (41:19):

And those are also characteristics of aphoristic writing and witty thinking. And by witty thinking, I don't mean being funny being funny is one form of, of wit, but witty thinking is just being sharp and creative and resourceful with, with the ingredients that you have. I think metaphor is another key component of, of, of strong writing. And again, it's because what, you know, I think this is true of all kind of all all all art forms. You don't want to, like, when, if you're writing a, a novel, you don't want, or you're making a film, you don't wanna show too much. You don't wanna explain too much. You want to give the reader enough information to create that world in, in their own minds. So, and that's what a metaphor does. So the metaphor of no snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.

James Geary (42:20):

That's just one sentence. Maybe it's 12 words, but within that sentence is an entire novella, really. You know, there's characters in there. There's there's tension, there's di dynamics. And I think what metaphoric metaphoric language and figurative language more broadly does in, in strong writing is give the reader enough information to create a world in their, in their own minds without overexplaining or under explaining. So leaving something to the imagination of the reader is crucial to sustaining attention for a piece of writing. And finally, I think the another aspect that has to do with width, but also one of the five laws of theism is giving things a twist. Having things have a surprise. And that could be a plot twist or a really inventive turn in the story, but it could also just be a linguistic flare. Just the way you play with words.

James Geary (43:23):

There's another, another metaphor and another example of how creativity and play are, are closely aligned. So, you know, having some kind of unpredictability and surprise as part of really strong writing, I, I think is essential. And again, that's keeps the reader kind of leaning forward into the text rather than kind of thinking back and saying, oh, I, I get it. And I know I kind of figured out what's gonna happen next. We all had that experience. You're watching a film or a TV show or reading a novel and you kinda think, oh yeah, I see where this is going. But really strong writing keeps you on your toes keeps the reader on their toes and delivers kind of some kind of surprising witch or wisdom or, or takeaway.

Larry (44:13):

What, what do you wanna say about your books, <laugh>? I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave it up to you.

James Geary (44:22):

What do I wanna say about my books? Well, I think there's, I've written two, two books about aphorisms. One is a kind of history of the aphorism the World in a phrase. It's also partly a memoir about my, my life with Aphorisms, <laugh>. And a lot of kinda major life events for me have been bound up with Aphs. And the second book abouts is an anthology that's Guide to the World's Great. And then the Metaphor and the, the Wit book for me have kind of grown out of a, that, that my work on Afros. Cause in thinking about afros, I ki writing those books, I thought, where, what are, you know, how do afros work? Like, where do they come from? And I realized that they work mostly by metaphor and best aphorisms, like we were saying earlier, they don't really have anything that's literally, that literally makes sense in them.

James Geary (45:17):

But they create this rich, vivid image that contains a lot of psychological insight, philosophical wisdom, and they do that through, through Metaphor. And then thinking through, when I was writing the researching and writing the Metaphor book, I was thinking like, well, where does metaphor come from? Like, how does that work? And that's what led me to wit and metaphor is one expression of wit, but for me, wit is sort of the operating principle of the human mind and this combinatory play that produces metaphors, that produces aphorisms, that produces all kinds of social, political, scientific artistic innovation. So I think the thing that I'd like to say about the books is that in a way, they're all, they're all related. At least in my mind. They all kind of are connected to this, to this understanding of language and creativity. And human mind is all kind of intertwined in in a really deep deep way that is that we're, that we're practicing every single day.

James Geary (46:24):

Like metaphors, not just for poets. Shakespeare, Shakespeare's not the only one using metaphor. We use metaphor all the time, every single day. Wi is not just something that standup comedians have, or Einstein, we all live by our wits every day. And wit is something that we're, we're, we're, we're constantly relying on. So that's what for me is I think the most important thing is that these grand philosophical concepts and high forms of literature are actually things that we're all experts in, that we're all using every day, and that are, that are kind of active in our minds all the time.

Larry (47:01):

If you are interested in purchasing any of James books, the links are in the show notes below. James, it's been fun, it's been educational, it's been fascinating. Thanks so much for coming on specifically for seniors.

James Geary (47:18):

Thank you for having me, Larry. It was really my pleasure.

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